Sunday, December 20, 2009
Definition of "Remedialism" - a Christian theological point of view
This brand of Christianity which I have called "Remedialism" is a view that our Father begot us as children of Him destined to become like Him ... and that He has guaranteed that all His children will arrive at unity with Him.
In this current era, the main thing all human beings need to learn is to receive Jesus as personal Savior of your soul. The word of Jesus, the blood of Jesus, and the spirit of Jesus will wash anyone who comes to Him and will keep that person from having to suffer the loss of his soul after the dying of his body.
Secondly, after believing into Jesus enough to have one's soul saved from going to "hell", we each need to walk with the Lord and be overcomers, built with other believers in Christ, until we come to maturity.
Monday, May 25, 2009
If These Things are True, Why Does the Bible Not Say So Plainly?
The Bible does not say very much plainly about anything except historical facts. Most doctrinal truth is hidden as treasure for the zealous student to dig and discover.
I can quote a couple of passages on this:
It is the glory of Elohim [God] to conceal a matter;
it is the glory of kings to investigate a matter.
[Proverbs 25: 2, Concordant Literal Version (CLV) ]
And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.
[Mark 4:11, 12. (King James Version) ]
And Psalm 1 says:
1Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
2But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
3And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.
4The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away.
5Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.
[Psalm 1:1-5. (KJV) ]
In the three above-quoted Scriptures, we can see that God uses encryption ... in the form of parable in order to hide truth from the wicked and to bless those who dilligently seek Him.
The truths about the purpose of suffering, death, and the prison known as the grave or "hell", have been mysteries to all but the few who dilligently seek to know the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
I hope that helps satisfy some reader's hunger for a beginning at studying these matters.
--Remedialist
I can quote a couple of passages on this:
It is the glory of Elohim [God] to conceal a matter;
it is the glory of kings to investigate a matter.
[Proverbs 25: 2, Concordant Literal Version (CLV) ]
And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.
[Mark 4:11, 12. (King James Version) ]
And Psalm 1 says:
1Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
2But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
3And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.
4The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away.
5Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.
[Psalm 1:1-5. (KJV) ]
In the three above-quoted Scriptures, we can see that God uses encryption ... in the form of parable in order to hide truth from the wicked and to bless those who dilligently seek Him.
The truths about the purpose of suffering, death, and the prison known as the grave or "hell", have been mysteries to all but the few who dilligently seek to know the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
I hope that helps satisfy some reader's hunger for a beginning at studying these matters.
--Remedialist
Sunday, May 3, 2009
General Stuff
This post is informal. It may contain ideas I could refine later.
This blog has been at a standstill... because I have not been aware of what I could say patiently with plenty of Scriptural backing... which would be received by someone out there in internet land. Here I hope to begin to reach a bit of forward momentum. There is someone somewhere who can benefit from some of this stuff.
I am aware that, for 99.99% of the potential audience out there, nothing I say is going to be well-received. Little I say will be understood. Yet, I must try to reach someone who is hungry for the Biblical truths of Remedialism.
Some high priority concepts:
The Remedialist doctrine has some first principles without which the whole message is misunderstood.
Jesus is equal to God. This is important in our Remedialist doctrine. True, the Father is greater than the Son. But Jesus is God. He is my God... and I hope He is - or will become - yours.
God offers proof of the truth. The Holy Scriptures which we have at hand are rich material for research which can help us find faith and truth. The individual can ask for proof from God. God will provide a measure of proof...just as He did for Thomas.
God is a Father of spirits; we (humans) are incarnate children of the Father. Technically, Jesus is our father. "The" Father is our grandfather. That is my conviction... but, if I am ever proven mistaken on that point, this would not collapse my whole worldview or theology. The main point is that each human is a spirit clothed in a body.
Man is tripartite: spirit, soul, and body. Knowledge of this concept is not required for "salvation" but is required if one is to understand more than a little bit about human life and the Bible.
Salvation from hell is just one part of what Jesus does for a believer. The reason for our existence is for us to learn and grow - as do children - into the likeness and image of our Father. Our father is God. We are growing to be like Him (though never going to catch up with Him). Jesus saves us from the pit of "hell" through faith in Him. Yet perfection is a long road ahead. The path to maturity is the Path which is Jesus. He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. We who believe have only begun to follow that path.
Hell is really the pits and we want people to avoid that. The Bible is evangelistic. The New Testament has much to say about calling people to be rescued from going to hell. Even though Remedialist doctrine, Bible-based, firmly shows that hell is not forever, yet hell is a prison and a pain we would like everyone to avoid. The way to avoid a term in the pit is to believe in Jesus as your personal saviour. He suffered on the cross for you. His blood washes you from whatever sins you confess to Him. Because your sins are washed away you are guaranteed that you will go to Paradise rather than the pit if you die.
We recommend the website http://hopebeyondhell.net/unity.php and the book, Hope Beyond Hell. The gist of it agrees with our Remedialist doctrine as it addresses the issues of God's love, and the limited duration of hell.
We recommend Watchman Nees exposition of the tripartite nature of man (spirit, soul, and body.)
Thanks! God bless your quest for truth. Send us questions at our Contact address for this blog.
This blog has been at a standstill... because I have not been aware of what I could say patiently with plenty of Scriptural backing... which would be received by someone out there in internet land. Here I hope to begin to reach a bit of forward momentum. There is someone somewhere who can benefit from some of this stuff.
I am aware that, for 99.99% of the potential audience out there, nothing I say is going to be well-received. Little I say will be understood. Yet, I must try to reach someone who is hungry for the Biblical truths of Remedialism.
Some high priority concepts:
The Remedialist doctrine has some first principles without which the whole message is misunderstood.
Jesus is equal to God. This is important in our Remedialist doctrine. True, the Father is greater than the Son. But Jesus is God. He is my God... and I hope He is - or will become - yours.
God offers proof of the truth. The Holy Scriptures which we have at hand are rich material for research which can help us find faith and truth. The individual can ask for proof from God. God will provide a measure of proof...just as He did for Thomas.
God is a Father of spirits; we (humans) are incarnate children of the Father. Technically, Jesus is our father. "The" Father is our grandfather. That is my conviction... but, if I am ever proven mistaken on that point, this would not collapse my whole worldview or theology. The main point is that each human is a spirit clothed in a body.
Man is tripartite: spirit, soul, and body. Knowledge of this concept is not required for "salvation" but is required if one is to understand more than a little bit about human life and the Bible.
Salvation from hell is just one part of what Jesus does for a believer. The reason for our existence is for us to learn and grow - as do children - into the likeness and image of our Father. Our father is God. We are growing to be like Him (though never going to catch up with Him). Jesus saves us from the pit of "hell" through faith in Him. Yet perfection is a long road ahead. The path to maturity is the Path which is Jesus. He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. We who believe have only begun to follow that path.
Hell is really the pits and we want people to avoid that. The Bible is evangelistic. The New Testament has much to say about calling people to be rescued from going to hell. Even though Remedialist doctrine, Bible-based, firmly shows that hell is not forever, yet hell is a prison and a pain we would like everyone to avoid. The way to avoid a term in the pit is to believe in Jesus as your personal saviour. He suffered on the cross for you. His blood washes you from whatever sins you confess to Him. Because your sins are washed away you are guaranteed that you will go to Paradise rather than the pit if you die.
We recommend the website http://hopebeyondhell.net/unity.php and the book, Hope Beyond Hell. The gist of it agrees with our Remedialist doctrine as it addresses the issues of God's love, and the limited duration of hell.
We recommend Watchman Nees exposition of the tripartite nature of man (spirit, soul, and body.)
Thanks! God bless your quest for truth. Send us questions at our Contact address for this blog.
Friday, May 1, 2009
Looking for a Reason to Believe in a Loving Father, a Loving Jesus, and a Loving Holy Spirit?
Our Father is waiting for His lost children to turn toward home.
The churches have told people that there is an eternal place of torment created by the Father for anyone who fails to believe in Jesus before he dies.
The churches, on this point, have been wrong.
Our Father is in the business of TRAINING HIS CHILDREN.
As we all know, training is accomplished through rewards and punishments. Yet, the traditional teaching of the churches has been that TOTAL reward of TOTAL good is for those who merely believe in Jesus, while TOTAL torment for TOTAL of the future is for those who fail to believe in Jesus before they die.
That kind of tradition makes it hard for some to believe in Jesus and salvation in Him.
The purpose of this blog is to begin to introduce people to a God who will be training His children for thousands and thousands of years. There is, a reward of Paradise and heaven for believers. Yet these rewards are only one or two steps on the path forward. There will be much training ahead for those in Paradise and Heaven.
God has the pit as a punishment ... for the sake of remedial punishment and for the sake of removing the old dirty garment in order to prepare His child to start a day in school again.
This is the truth. Believe it.
Timotheus Wood
The churches have told people that there is an eternal place of torment created by the Father for anyone who fails to believe in Jesus before he dies.
The churches, on this point, have been wrong.
Our Father is in the business of TRAINING HIS CHILDREN.
As we all know, training is accomplished through rewards and punishments. Yet, the traditional teaching of the churches has been that TOTAL reward of TOTAL good is for those who merely believe in Jesus, while TOTAL torment for TOTAL of the future is for those who fail to believe in Jesus before they die.
That kind of tradition makes it hard for some to believe in Jesus and salvation in Him.
The purpose of this blog is to begin to introduce people to a God who will be training His children for thousands and thousands of years. There is, a reward of Paradise and heaven for believers. Yet these rewards are only one or two steps on the path forward. There will be much training ahead for those in Paradise and Heaven.
God has the pit as a punishment ... for the sake of remedial punishment and for the sake of removing the old dirty garment in order to prepare His child to start a day in school again.
This is the truth. Believe it.
Timotheus Wood
Defining Tri-partite Man as "Spirit, Soul, and Body"
Defining Tri-partite Man as "Spirit, Soul, and Body"
Are you seeking to understand our Father-in-heaven's ways with man (and with angels)?One very important Biblical concept to ponder is the three-part nature of man. Each one of mankind is a spirit, a soul, and a body.A great writing on this is in the first couple of chapters or so of Watchan Nee's book titled "The Spritual Man." Currently this book is available for free as an online book athttp://www.worldinvisible.com/library/nee/sprtmnv1/1968v1c1.htmAlthough we are not affiliated with the "worldinvisible" organization which posted this at their online library, we appreciate the free service they have done.The first two paragraphs of that writing are as follows:
SPIRIT, SOUL AND BODY
The ordinary concept of the constitution of human beings is dualistic-soul and body. According to this concept soul is the invisible inner spiritual part, while body is the visible outer corporal part. Though there is some truth to this, it is nevertheless inaccurate. Such an opinion comes from fallen man, not from God; apart from God's revelation, no concept is dependable. That the body is man's outward sheath is undoubtedly correct, but the Bible never confuses spirit and soul as though they are the same. Not only are they different in terms; their very natures differ from eachother. The Word of God does not divide man into the two parts of soul and body.It treats man, rather, as tripartite-spirit, soul and body. I Thessalonians 5.23 reads: "May the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be kept sound and blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." This verse precisely shows that the whole man is divided into three parts. The Apostle Paul refers here to the complete sanctification of believers, "sanctify you wholly. "According to the Apostle, how is a person wholly sanctified? By his spirit and soul and body being kept. From this we can easily understand that the whole person comprises these three parts. This verse also makes a distinction between spirit and soul; otherwise, Paul would have said simply "your soul." Since God has distinguished the human spirit from the human soul, we conclude that man is composed of not two, but three, parts; spirit, soul and body.
Is it a matter of any consequence to divide spirit and soul? It is an issue of supreme importance for it affects tremendously the spiritual life of a believer. How can a believer understand spiritual life if he does not know what is the extent of the realm of the spirit? Without such understanding how can he grow spiritually? To fail to distinguish between spirit and soul is fatal to spiritual maturity. Christians often account what is soulical. as spiritual, and thus they remain in a soulish state and seek not what is really spiritual. How can we escape loss if we confuse what God has divided?
Are you seeking to understand our Father-in-heaven's ways with man (and with angels)?One very important Biblical concept to ponder is the three-part nature of man. Each one of mankind is a spirit, a soul, and a body.A great writing on this is in the first couple of chapters or so of Watchan Nee's book titled "The Spritual Man." Currently this book is available for free as an online book athttp://www.worldinvisible.com/library/nee/sprtmnv1/1968v1c1.htmAlthough we are not affiliated with the "worldinvisible" organization which posted this at their online library, we appreciate the free service they have done.The first two paragraphs of that writing are as follows:
SPIRIT, SOUL AND BODY
The ordinary concept of the constitution of human beings is dualistic-soul and body. According to this concept soul is the invisible inner spiritual part, while body is the visible outer corporal part. Though there is some truth to this, it is nevertheless inaccurate. Such an opinion comes from fallen man, not from God; apart from God's revelation, no concept is dependable. That the body is man's outward sheath is undoubtedly correct, but the Bible never confuses spirit and soul as though they are the same. Not only are they different in terms; their very natures differ from eachother. The Word of God does not divide man into the two parts of soul and body.It treats man, rather, as tripartite-spirit, soul and body. I Thessalonians 5.23 reads: "May the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be kept sound and blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." This verse precisely shows that the whole man is divided into three parts. The Apostle Paul refers here to the complete sanctification of believers, "sanctify you wholly. "According to the Apostle, how is a person wholly sanctified? By his spirit and soul and body being kept. From this we can easily understand that the whole person comprises these three parts. This verse also makes a distinction between spirit and soul; otherwise, Paul would have said simply "your soul." Since God has distinguished the human spirit from the human soul, we conclude that man is composed of not two, but three, parts; spirit, soul and body.
Is it a matter of any consequence to divide spirit and soul? It is an issue of supreme importance for it affects tremendously the spiritual life of a believer. How can a believer understand spiritual life if he does not know what is the extent of the realm of the spirit? Without such understanding how can he grow spiritually? To fail to distinguish between spirit and soul is fatal to spiritual maturity. Christians often account what is soulical. as spiritual, and thus they remain in a soulish state and seek not what is really spiritual. How can we escape loss if we confuse what God has divided?
Remedialist - Interfacing a Dying Age
Remedialist - Interfacing a Dying Age
Welcome to the Remedialist blog, dedicated to a God Who is a Father ... a truly good Father ... who is full of love as well as holiness and righteousness.This is a blog to introduce seekers of the truth to the true meaning of God as a Father Who will bring up all His children (including you, me, and all the good and evil children) into His ways of truth, love, and goodness.The editor does not claim to know everything... but he knows more about this one subject than 99.9% of all people on the planet.
Welcome to the Remedialist blog, dedicated to a God Who is a Father ... a truly good Father ... who is full of love as well as holiness and righteousness.This is a blog to introduce seekers of the truth to the true meaning of God as a Father Who will bring up all His children (including you, me, and all the good and evil children) into His ways of truth, love, and goodness.The editor does not claim to know everything... but he knows more about this one subject than 99.9% of all people on the planet.
Saturday, February 14, 2009
God and Time
Hey... there are vast amounts of things I do not know.
But... I have some partial knowledge that goes far beyond what most people know.
Yet... the important thing is to know Jesus. And, knowing Him, to know His Father and the Holy Spirit (who is ministering in the earth now as Jesus' representative.)
That said... I want to proclaim - in case anyone can be reached - some of the truths I know about God's ways.
GOD AND TIME:
Where did theologians and the mass Christian culture get the idea that God does not have any experience of time? I am sure that Yahweh God (which is Jesus and/or the Father) experiences time. I know of no Hebrew or Greek word which is used to express utter timelessness.
Think of it this way: does not God ACT (that is, DO things)? Well, if God DOES something, then there a BEFORE and an AFTER for the doing of that thing. In other words, by stating that God acts, we have stated that there exists a linear measure. Any linear measure of action defines TIME.
So.... Genesis says, "In begining, God created heavens and earth." There you have it, God DID something. If we admit that He DID something, we admit that there is, for God, a "before" and an "after." So... in the first verse of our Holy Scripture we have the undeniable statement that God experiences time.
That said, it does not necessarily follow that God experiences time exactly as do humans.
Approach the subject from a different Scripture reference. Paul says in Romans chapter 1 that the invisible things of God are clearly perceived through the things which have been made. Well.... we know that time exists. If our experience of "time" has been made by God, then this demonstrates something to us of "the invisible things of God." If we experience time, then there must be "time" in God's experience. We must, as His children, experience the passage of time, so that when we become little Sons of God, then we will be adept and dealing with time.
Remedialist
But... I have some partial knowledge that goes far beyond what most people know.
Yet... the important thing is to know Jesus. And, knowing Him, to know His Father and the Holy Spirit (who is ministering in the earth now as Jesus' representative.)
That said... I want to proclaim - in case anyone can be reached - some of the truths I know about God's ways.
GOD AND TIME:
Where did theologians and the mass Christian culture get the idea that God does not have any experience of time? I am sure that Yahweh God (which is Jesus and/or the Father) experiences time. I know of no Hebrew or Greek word which is used to express utter timelessness.
Think of it this way: does not God ACT (that is, DO things)? Well, if God DOES something, then there a BEFORE and an AFTER for the doing of that thing. In other words, by stating that God acts, we have stated that there exists a linear measure. Any linear measure of action defines TIME.
So.... Genesis says, "In begining, God created heavens and earth." There you have it, God DID something. If we admit that He DID something, we admit that there is, for God, a "before" and an "after." So... in the first verse of our Holy Scripture we have the undeniable statement that God experiences time.
That said, it does not necessarily follow that God experiences time exactly as do humans.
Approach the subject from a different Scripture reference. Paul says in Romans chapter 1 that the invisible things of God are clearly perceived through the things which have been made. Well.... we know that time exists. If our experience of "time" has been made by God, then this demonstrates something to us of "the invisible things of God." If we experience time, then there must be "time" in God's experience. We must, as His children, experience the passage of time, so that when we become little Sons of God, then we will be adept and dealing with time.
Remedialist
Central Points for this Blog
To keep the main points for this blog in mind, I will state them here even though it may have already been said.
1. God is Father of spirits. [Visualise a "spirit" as being a flame in the form of a human.] An individual "spirit" is basically like an angel. It has intelligence and capabilities within its realm assigned to it by the Father.
A verse saying literally that God is the "father of spirits" is in Hebrews 12. There the Lord says we should be subject to the Father of spirits Who disciplines us for our good.
2. Man is a three-part being now that God has incarnated us into human bodies. Man is spirit, soul, and body. This is summed up in a verse in 1 Thessalonias 5, but it is evident throughout the Bible. See teachings by Watchman Nee for alot of widely published exposition of this. A major concept for this is found in the study of the Genesis 2 account in which God formed Adam of the dust and "breathed" (literally, "spirited") into Adam the spirit of lives and man generated a living soul. God is not a wind-bag, so we know He did not "breathe" wind into Adam. God is a Spirit. The Hebrew word for wind and breath is the same as the word for spirit (nephesh), so we take its meaning in the context of Genesis chapter 2 to be the act of placing spirit into Adam. God does not "create" spirit but begets it. He IS spirit and He begets spirit. (Like begets like.)
3. The purpose of having His children incarnated into human bodies and souls is to give them vehicles for expression and education. The body and soul which are like automobiles for the inner spirit-child-of-God accelerate the learning curve of that child of God. If we were only a spirit, having no body, our learning speed would be slow. Learning is increased because the quantity and intensity of experience is increased by being incarnated in a body and a soul.
4. God warned Adam not to eat of the forbidden fruit, "for on the day you eat of it, you shall die." God did not warn Adam of going to hell forever and ever, for that was not a possibility.
The theif is Satan. Satan comes "to steal, kill, and destroy." Satan stole Adam's inheritance in the garden. Satan killed Adam and Eve. And Satan destroys souls in Sheol (which is the grave or the unseen).
5. Father's goal for mankind is that mankind should retain soul and body and use them to obey Father and grow up in wisdom and knowledge and worship of Him.
Thanks, reader, for trying to understand.
Sincerely,
Remedialist
1. God is Father of spirits. [Visualise a "spirit" as being a flame in the form of a human.] An individual "spirit" is basically like an angel. It has intelligence and capabilities within its realm assigned to it by the Father.
A verse saying literally that God is the "father of spirits" is in Hebrews 12. There the Lord says we should be subject to the Father of spirits Who disciplines us for our good.
2. Man is a three-part being now that God has incarnated us into human bodies. Man is spirit, soul, and body. This is summed up in a verse in 1 Thessalonias 5, but it is evident throughout the Bible. See teachings by Watchman Nee for alot of widely published exposition of this. A major concept for this is found in the study of the Genesis 2 account in which God formed Adam of the dust and "breathed" (literally, "spirited") into Adam the spirit of lives and man generated a living soul. God is not a wind-bag, so we know He did not "breathe" wind into Adam. God is a Spirit. The Hebrew word for wind and breath is the same as the word for spirit (nephesh), so we take its meaning in the context of Genesis chapter 2 to be the act of placing spirit into Adam. God does not "create" spirit but begets it. He IS spirit and He begets spirit. (Like begets like.)
3. The purpose of having His children incarnated into human bodies and souls is to give them vehicles for expression and education. The body and soul which are like automobiles for the inner spirit-child-of-God accelerate the learning curve of that child of God. If we were only a spirit, having no body, our learning speed would be slow. Learning is increased because the quantity and intensity of experience is increased by being incarnated in a body and a soul.
4. God warned Adam not to eat of the forbidden fruit, "for on the day you eat of it, you shall die." God did not warn Adam of going to hell forever and ever, for that was not a possibility.
The theif is Satan. Satan comes "to steal, kill, and destroy." Satan stole Adam's inheritance in the garden. Satan killed Adam and Eve. And Satan destroys souls in Sheol (which is the grave or the unseen).
5. Father's goal for mankind is that mankind should retain soul and body and use them to obey Father and grow up in wisdom and knowledge and worship of Him.
Thanks, reader, for trying to understand.
Sincerely,
Remedialist
Burning the chaff with UNEXTINGUISHED fire
As a further evidence for what I said in post on the unquenched fire, here is what Jesus said. He said there is chaff which shall be burnt with UNEXTINGUISHED fire.
See Mt. 3:12, Lu. 3:17
Well, this makes a case for the "fire" of the Lake of Fire which consumes until there is no more fuel to burn, at which time the pain ceases.
The alternate view of Isaiah 66:24 - that the fire of the man is his own spirit and not an outside force - is still appropriate for Isaiah 66:24, but not for the "fire" of Gehenna or the "fire" of the Lake of Fire.
See Mt. 3:12, Lu. 3:17
Well, this makes a case for the "fire" of the Lake of Fire which consumes until there is no more fuel to burn, at which time the pain ceases.
The alternate view of Isaiah 66:24 - that the fire of the man is his own spirit and not an outside force - is still appropriate for Isaiah 66:24, but not for the "fire" of Gehenna or the "fire" of the Lake of Fire.
Worms that die not, and fire that is not quenched.
One reason I have been not posting much is because of the temptation when posting to pretend to know too much too certainly. In order to get someone to believe you, you need to act like you are quite certain.
My certainty about a few things is very high. My certainty about other things is less. If I were to write/talk about only the most certain things, I would not have much to say. I would say that Jesus is Savior of those who put their trust in Him. And a few other truths that are certain enough.
I am also quite certain there is no everlasting torture of anyone. But how to demonstrate that to others sometimes involves a bit of speculation with a bit of light on Scripture.
A case in point is the discussion of that worm which dieth not and that fire which is not quenched. Does one reader in a million actually think about the words of Scripture which are involved in that? Check out Isaiah 66:24 at www.blueletterbible.org
Isa 66:24
And they shall go forth 3318 , and look 7200 upon the carcases 6297 of the men 582 that have transgressed 6586 against me: for their worm 8438 shall not die 4191 , neither shall their fire 784 be quenched 3518 ; and they shall be an abhorring 1860 unto all flesh 1320.
Let us think a moment. If a fire is not quenched, does that mean that the fuel it is burning must continue to exist (and be in pain) forever? Hmmmm. My answer is: Nope, I never saw fuel which never was consumed. I have seen fires which were not quenched, but the fuel burnt down to zero.
Has there ever been a worm whose food just regenerated again and again so that the worm could feed on the same food forever?
So, taking Isaiah 66:24 as holy Scripture, we believe there is a fire and a worm, but we absolutely have no indication that there is someone who is tormented forever by this fire and this worm.
What is more, there are details of these Scriptures which imply that there may be something more subtle - as there always is - taking place beyond the surface.
Look again at Isaiah 66:24, you see the word "t-h-e-i-r" twice. It is "their" fire and "their" worm. The fire and the worm BELONG to the ones who are being looked upon. If I am being burnt, the fire does not belong to me. If a carcass is being eaten by a worm, the worm does not belong to the carcass. Think about it. So.....this fire is not an outside agent acting upon the person, but is the possession of that person. The fire would seem to be the spirit of that person which never dies. The fire is not quenched... means the spirit of the person does not perish.
Is the "worm" an outside agent or is it the spirit of the person who has gone to hell? I lean toward seeing "their worm" as being the spirit of the person which remains after the body and soul have been killed and destroyed. Remember man is a three-part being. Man is "spirit, soul, and body." The body can be killed, the soul can be destroyed, but the spirit of the man lives. The spirit is that living being (child) which came from God.
Genesis says God breathed (spirited) into man the breath (spirit) of life. That is how we are children of God. The incarnate spirit is the child of God. The spirit is the fire which is not quenched and it also may be described as a worm which does not die.
The Lord said, in Isaiah 53, "I am a worm and no man." That is what Jesus became when His body was dead and His soul was poured out. He descended into Sheol (the grave) and preached to the spirits in prison who formerly did not obey God in the days of Noah. He was a spirit and no longer and incarnate man ... until the resurrection. Thus a "worm" in Isaiah 66:24 is a spirit of a man after it is denuded of the body and soul.
Look it up in Strong's Concordance online. The word "worm" is not always used in the same way. It is not even always the same Hebrew word. So... we must THINK with the HOLY SPIRIT of the Lord saving us and leading us.
Check out Job 25:6.
Job 25:6
How much less man 582, [that is] a worm 7415? and the son 1121 of man 120, [which is] a worm 8438?
Ah hah! Here we have a reference to a worm being a man! This is the #8438 worm. In contrast, the #7415 "worm" is alternately translated as a maggot. So things may be more complicated that anyone of us would like to admit.
So... if a man's worm does not die in Sheol, does that mean the man is being eaten by a worm "foever"? Or, more sensibly, does it probably mean that the spirit of the man lives on?
Remedialist
My certainty about a few things is very high. My certainty about other things is less. If I were to write/talk about only the most certain things, I would not have much to say. I would say that Jesus is Savior of those who put their trust in Him. And a few other truths that are certain enough.
I am also quite certain there is no everlasting torture of anyone. But how to demonstrate that to others sometimes involves a bit of speculation with a bit of light on Scripture.
A case in point is the discussion of that worm which dieth not and that fire which is not quenched. Does one reader in a million actually think about the words of Scripture which are involved in that? Check out Isaiah 66:24 at www.blueletterbible.org
Isa 66:24
And they shall go forth 3318 , and look 7200 upon the carcases 6297 of the men 582 that have transgressed 6586 against me: for their worm 8438 shall not die 4191 , neither shall their fire 784 be quenched 3518 ; and they shall be an abhorring 1860 unto all flesh 1320.
Let us think a moment. If a fire is not quenched, does that mean that the fuel it is burning must continue to exist (and be in pain) forever? Hmmmm. My answer is: Nope, I never saw fuel which never was consumed. I have seen fires which were not quenched, but the fuel burnt down to zero.
Has there ever been a worm whose food just regenerated again and again so that the worm could feed on the same food forever?
So, taking Isaiah 66:24 as holy Scripture, we believe there is a fire and a worm, but we absolutely have no indication that there is someone who is tormented forever by this fire and this worm.
What is more, there are details of these Scriptures which imply that there may be something more subtle - as there always is - taking place beyond the surface.
Look again at Isaiah 66:24, you see the word "t-h-e-i-r" twice. It is "their" fire and "their" worm. The fire and the worm BELONG to the ones who are being looked upon. If I am being burnt, the fire does not belong to me. If a carcass is being eaten by a worm, the worm does not belong to the carcass. Think about it. So.....this fire is not an outside agent acting upon the person, but is the possession of that person. The fire would seem to be the spirit of that person which never dies. The fire is not quenched... means the spirit of the person does not perish.
Is the "worm" an outside agent or is it the spirit of the person who has gone to hell? I lean toward seeing "their worm" as being the spirit of the person which remains after the body and soul have been killed and destroyed. Remember man is a three-part being. Man is "spirit, soul, and body." The body can be killed, the soul can be destroyed, but the spirit of the man lives. The spirit is that living being (child) which came from God.
Genesis says God breathed (spirited) into man the breath (spirit) of life. That is how we are children of God. The incarnate spirit is the child of God. The spirit is the fire which is not quenched and it also may be described as a worm which does not die.
The Lord said, in Isaiah 53, "I am a worm and no man." That is what Jesus became when His body was dead and His soul was poured out. He descended into Sheol (the grave) and preached to the spirits in prison who formerly did not obey God in the days of Noah. He was a spirit and no longer and incarnate man ... until the resurrection. Thus a "worm" in Isaiah 66:24 is a spirit of a man after it is denuded of the body and soul.
Look it up in Strong's Concordance online. The word "worm" is not always used in the same way. It is not even always the same Hebrew word. So... we must THINK with the HOLY SPIRIT of the Lord saving us and leading us.
Check out Job 25:6.
Job 25:6
How much less man 582, [that is] a worm 7415? and the son 1121 of man 120, [which is] a worm 8438?
Ah hah! Here we have a reference to a worm being a man! This is the #8438 worm. In contrast, the #7415 "worm" is alternately translated as a maggot. So things may be more complicated that anyone of us would like to admit.
So... if a man's worm does not die in Sheol, does that mean the man is being eaten by a worm "foever"? Or, more sensibly, does it probably mean that the spirit of the man lives on?
Remedialist
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