Hey... there are vast amounts of things I do not know.
But... I have some partial knowledge that goes far beyond what most people know.
Yet... the important thing is to know Jesus. And, knowing Him, to know His Father and the Holy Spirit (who is ministering in the earth now as Jesus' representative.)
That said... I want to proclaim - in case anyone can be reached - some of the truths I know about God's ways.
GOD AND TIME:
Where did theologians and the mass Christian culture get the idea that God does not have any experience of time? I am sure that Yahweh God (which is Jesus and/or the Father) experiences time. I know of no Hebrew or Greek word which is used to express utter timelessness.
Think of it this way: does not God ACT (that is, DO things)? Well, if God DOES something, then there a BEFORE and an AFTER for the doing of that thing. In other words, by stating that God acts, we have stated that there exists a linear measure. Any linear measure of action defines TIME.
So.... Genesis says, "In begining, God created heavens and earth." There you have it, God DID something. If we admit that He DID something, we admit that there is, for God, a "before" and an "after." So... in the first verse of our Holy Scripture we have the undeniable statement that God experiences time.
That said, it does not necessarily follow that God experiences time exactly as do humans.
Approach the subject from a different Scripture reference. Paul says in Romans chapter 1 that the invisible things of God are clearly perceived through the things which have been made. Well.... we know that time exists. If our experience of "time" has been made by God, then this demonstrates something to us of "the invisible things of God." If we experience time, then there must be "time" in God's experience. We must, as His children, experience the passage of time, so that when we become little Sons of God, then we will be adept and dealing with time.
Remedialist
Saturday, February 14, 2009
Central Points for this Blog
To keep the main points for this blog in mind, I will state them here even though it may have already been said.
1. God is Father of spirits. [Visualise a "spirit" as being a flame in the form of a human.] An individual "spirit" is basically like an angel. It has intelligence and capabilities within its realm assigned to it by the Father.
A verse saying literally that God is the "father of spirits" is in Hebrews 12. There the Lord says we should be subject to the Father of spirits Who disciplines us for our good.
2. Man is a three-part being now that God has incarnated us into human bodies. Man is spirit, soul, and body. This is summed up in a verse in 1 Thessalonias 5, but it is evident throughout the Bible. See teachings by Watchman Nee for alot of widely published exposition of this. A major concept for this is found in the study of the Genesis 2 account in which God formed Adam of the dust and "breathed" (literally, "spirited") into Adam the spirit of lives and man generated a living soul. God is not a wind-bag, so we know He did not "breathe" wind into Adam. God is a Spirit. The Hebrew word for wind and breath is the same as the word for spirit (nephesh), so we take its meaning in the context of Genesis chapter 2 to be the act of placing spirit into Adam. God does not "create" spirit but begets it. He IS spirit and He begets spirit. (Like begets like.)
3. The purpose of having His children incarnated into human bodies and souls is to give them vehicles for expression and education. The body and soul which are like automobiles for the inner spirit-child-of-God accelerate the learning curve of that child of God. If we were only a spirit, having no body, our learning speed would be slow. Learning is increased because the quantity and intensity of experience is increased by being incarnated in a body and a soul.
4. God warned Adam not to eat of the forbidden fruit, "for on the day you eat of it, you shall die." God did not warn Adam of going to hell forever and ever, for that was not a possibility.
The theif is Satan. Satan comes "to steal, kill, and destroy." Satan stole Adam's inheritance in the garden. Satan killed Adam and Eve. And Satan destroys souls in Sheol (which is the grave or the unseen).
5. Father's goal for mankind is that mankind should retain soul and body and use them to obey Father and grow up in wisdom and knowledge and worship of Him.
Thanks, reader, for trying to understand.
Sincerely,
Remedialist
1. God is Father of spirits. [Visualise a "spirit" as being a flame in the form of a human.] An individual "spirit" is basically like an angel. It has intelligence and capabilities within its realm assigned to it by the Father.
A verse saying literally that God is the "father of spirits" is in Hebrews 12. There the Lord says we should be subject to the Father of spirits Who disciplines us for our good.
2. Man is a three-part being now that God has incarnated us into human bodies. Man is spirit, soul, and body. This is summed up in a verse in 1 Thessalonias 5, but it is evident throughout the Bible. See teachings by Watchman Nee for alot of widely published exposition of this. A major concept for this is found in the study of the Genesis 2 account in which God formed Adam of the dust and "breathed" (literally, "spirited") into Adam the spirit of lives and man generated a living soul. God is not a wind-bag, so we know He did not "breathe" wind into Adam. God is a Spirit. The Hebrew word for wind and breath is the same as the word for spirit (nephesh), so we take its meaning in the context of Genesis chapter 2 to be the act of placing spirit into Adam. God does not "create" spirit but begets it. He IS spirit and He begets spirit. (Like begets like.)
3. The purpose of having His children incarnated into human bodies and souls is to give them vehicles for expression and education. The body and soul which are like automobiles for the inner spirit-child-of-God accelerate the learning curve of that child of God. If we were only a spirit, having no body, our learning speed would be slow. Learning is increased because the quantity and intensity of experience is increased by being incarnated in a body and a soul.
4. God warned Adam not to eat of the forbidden fruit, "for on the day you eat of it, you shall die." God did not warn Adam of going to hell forever and ever, for that was not a possibility.
The theif is Satan. Satan comes "to steal, kill, and destroy." Satan stole Adam's inheritance in the garden. Satan killed Adam and Eve. And Satan destroys souls in Sheol (which is the grave or the unseen).
5. Father's goal for mankind is that mankind should retain soul and body and use them to obey Father and grow up in wisdom and knowledge and worship of Him.
Thanks, reader, for trying to understand.
Sincerely,
Remedialist
Burning the chaff with UNEXTINGUISHED fire
As a further evidence for what I said in post on the unquenched fire, here is what Jesus said. He said there is chaff which shall be burnt with UNEXTINGUISHED fire.
See Mt. 3:12, Lu. 3:17
Well, this makes a case for the "fire" of the Lake of Fire which consumes until there is no more fuel to burn, at which time the pain ceases.
The alternate view of Isaiah 66:24 - that the fire of the man is his own spirit and not an outside force - is still appropriate for Isaiah 66:24, but not for the "fire" of Gehenna or the "fire" of the Lake of Fire.
See Mt. 3:12, Lu. 3:17
Well, this makes a case for the "fire" of the Lake of Fire which consumes until there is no more fuel to burn, at which time the pain ceases.
The alternate view of Isaiah 66:24 - that the fire of the man is his own spirit and not an outside force - is still appropriate for Isaiah 66:24, but not for the "fire" of Gehenna or the "fire" of the Lake of Fire.
Worms that die not, and fire that is not quenched.
One reason I have been not posting much is because of the temptation when posting to pretend to know too much too certainly. In order to get someone to believe you, you need to act like you are quite certain.
My certainty about a few things is very high. My certainty about other things is less. If I were to write/talk about only the most certain things, I would not have much to say. I would say that Jesus is Savior of those who put their trust in Him. And a few other truths that are certain enough.
I am also quite certain there is no everlasting torture of anyone. But how to demonstrate that to others sometimes involves a bit of speculation with a bit of light on Scripture.
A case in point is the discussion of that worm which dieth not and that fire which is not quenched. Does one reader in a million actually think about the words of Scripture which are involved in that? Check out Isaiah 66:24 at www.blueletterbible.org
Isa 66:24
And they shall go forth 3318 , and look 7200 upon the carcases 6297 of the men 582 that have transgressed 6586 against me: for their worm 8438 shall not die 4191 , neither shall their fire 784 be quenched 3518 ; and they shall be an abhorring 1860 unto all flesh 1320.
Let us think a moment. If a fire is not quenched, does that mean that the fuel it is burning must continue to exist (and be in pain) forever? Hmmmm. My answer is: Nope, I never saw fuel which never was consumed. I have seen fires which were not quenched, but the fuel burnt down to zero.
Has there ever been a worm whose food just regenerated again and again so that the worm could feed on the same food forever?
So, taking Isaiah 66:24 as holy Scripture, we believe there is a fire and a worm, but we absolutely have no indication that there is someone who is tormented forever by this fire and this worm.
What is more, there are details of these Scriptures which imply that there may be something more subtle - as there always is - taking place beyond the surface.
Look again at Isaiah 66:24, you see the word "t-h-e-i-r" twice. It is "their" fire and "their" worm. The fire and the worm BELONG to the ones who are being looked upon. If I am being burnt, the fire does not belong to me. If a carcass is being eaten by a worm, the worm does not belong to the carcass. Think about it. So.....this fire is not an outside agent acting upon the person, but is the possession of that person. The fire would seem to be the spirit of that person which never dies. The fire is not quenched... means the spirit of the person does not perish.
Is the "worm" an outside agent or is it the spirit of the person who has gone to hell? I lean toward seeing "their worm" as being the spirit of the person which remains after the body and soul have been killed and destroyed. Remember man is a three-part being. Man is "spirit, soul, and body." The body can be killed, the soul can be destroyed, but the spirit of the man lives. The spirit is that living being (child) which came from God.
Genesis says God breathed (spirited) into man the breath (spirit) of life. That is how we are children of God. The incarnate spirit is the child of God. The spirit is the fire which is not quenched and it also may be described as a worm which does not die.
The Lord said, in Isaiah 53, "I am a worm and no man." That is what Jesus became when His body was dead and His soul was poured out. He descended into Sheol (the grave) and preached to the spirits in prison who formerly did not obey God in the days of Noah. He was a spirit and no longer and incarnate man ... until the resurrection. Thus a "worm" in Isaiah 66:24 is a spirit of a man after it is denuded of the body and soul.
Look it up in Strong's Concordance online. The word "worm" is not always used in the same way. It is not even always the same Hebrew word. So... we must THINK with the HOLY SPIRIT of the Lord saving us and leading us.
Check out Job 25:6.
Job 25:6
How much less man 582, [that is] a worm 7415? and the son 1121 of man 120, [which is] a worm 8438?
Ah hah! Here we have a reference to a worm being a man! This is the #8438 worm. In contrast, the #7415 "worm" is alternately translated as a maggot. So things may be more complicated that anyone of us would like to admit.
So... if a man's worm does not die in Sheol, does that mean the man is being eaten by a worm "foever"? Or, more sensibly, does it probably mean that the spirit of the man lives on?
Remedialist
My certainty about a few things is very high. My certainty about other things is less. If I were to write/talk about only the most certain things, I would not have much to say. I would say that Jesus is Savior of those who put their trust in Him. And a few other truths that are certain enough.
I am also quite certain there is no everlasting torture of anyone. But how to demonstrate that to others sometimes involves a bit of speculation with a bit of light on Scripture.
A case in point is the discussion of that worm which dieth not and that fire which is not quenched. Does one reader in a million actually think about the words of Scripture which are involved in that? Check out Isaiah 66:24 at www.blueletterbible.org
Isa 66:24
And they shall go forth 3318 , and look 7200 upon the carcases 6297 of the men 582 that have transgressed 6586 against me: for their worm 8438 shall not die 4191 , neither shall their fire 784 be quenched 3518 ; and they shall be an abhorring 1860 unto all flesh 1320.
Let us think a moment. If a fire is not quenched, does that mean that the fuel it is burning must continue to exist (and be in pain) forever? Hmmmm. My answer is: Nope, I never saw fuel which never was consumed. I have seen fires which were not quenched, but the fuel burnt down to zero.
Has there ever been a worm whose food just regenerated again and again so that the worm could feed on the same food forever?
So, taking Isaiah 66:24 as holy Scripture, we believe there is a fire and a worm, but we absolutely have no indication that there is someone who is tormented forever by this fire and this worm.
What is more, there are details of these Scriptures which imply that there may be something more subtle - as there always is - taking place beyond the surface.
Look again at Isaiah 66:24, you see the word "t-h-e-i-r" twice. It is "their" fire and "their" worm. The fire and the worm BELONG to the ones who are being looked upon. If I am being burnt, the fire does not belong to me. If a carcass is being eaten by a worm, the worm does not belong to the carcass. Think about it. So.....this fire is not an outside agent acting upon the person, but is the possession of that person. The fire would seem to be the spirit of that person which never dies. The fire is not quenched... means the spirit of the person does not perish.
Is the "worm" an outside agent or is it the spirit of the person who has gone to hell? I lean toward seeing "their worm" as being the spirit of the person which remains after the body and soul have been killed and destroyed. Remember man is a three-part being. Man is "spirit, soul, and body." The body can be killed, the soul can be destroyed, but the spirit of the man lives. The spirit is that living being (child) which came from God.
Genesis says God breathed (spirited) into man the breath (spirit) of life. That is how we are children of God. The incarnate spirit is the child of God. The spirit is the fire which is not quenched and it also may be described as a worm which does not die.
The Lord said, in Isaiah 53, "I am a worm and no man." That is what Jesus became when His body was dead and His soul was poured out. He descended into Sheol (the grave) and preached to the spirits in prison who formerly did not obey God in the days of Noah. He was a spirit and no longer and incarnate man ... until the resurrection. Thus a "worm" in Isaiah 66:24 is a spirit of a man after it is denuded of the body and soul.
Look it up in Strong's Concordance online. The word "worm" is not always used in the same way. It is not even always the same Hebrew word. So... we must THINK with the HOLY SPIRIT of the Lord saving us and leading us.
Check out Job 25:6.
Job 25:6
How much less man 582, [that is] a worm 7415? and the son 1121 of man 120, [which is] a worm 8438?
Ah hah! Here we have a reference to a worm being a man! This is the #8438 worm. In contrast, the #7415 "worm" is alternately translated as a maggot. So things may be more complicated that anyone of us would like to admit.
So... if a man's worm does not die in Sheol, does that mean the man is being eaten by a worm "foever"? Or, more sensibly, does it probably mean that the spirit of the man lives on?
Remedialist
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